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RE: Ban list - Edward Elric - 02-09-2008 08:23 PM
Ouch he?s not a botter i remember on that day he told he was teaching her wife how to play ro , she cant speak english and prolly didnt know a thing about bot or those things...he just teached her how to click on monsters to kill and thats all =P...on that day i was chatting with her in spanish and her chat thing was to send messages only to guild i?m completely sure that after i log off she didnt know how to change it ...thats prolly why she didnt reply during the bot test =(
RE: Ban list - Kikumaru - 02-09-2008 08:57 PM
Well, it's a nice story, I'll give you that. I'm still a bit skeptical about it though. I could say, "Oh, a foreign exchange student which doesn't understand English was playing for me, sorry" to try and get out of being jailed or banned.
The lesson to be learned here is, do not let someone who doesn't understand basic English, or the basics of the game for that matter, play for you. It's only going to get you in trouble or be banned in Spirit of Fire's case.
Once again..it still bothers me that he was able to reply, on main, two to three minutes after being jailed. If his wife really was playing, then obviously he was close enough to get to the computer two to three minutes after being jailed to give some sort of plead of innocence. If he was that close to the computer, he should have said something to the GMs following, including everyone else for that matter, letting us know she was playing for him, then went about whatever it was he was doing.
Leaving someone who is inexperienced with the game and cannot understand English well wasn't the brightest of decisions he could have made to begin with (if what you and Spirit say is true).
Anyway, the decision has been made. Whether it was his wife or not, he has been banned. They may look into the matter at later time, but it's kind of hard to bring someone back who failed all of the checks to pass the bot-test. There's only so far his words can take him. We base things on what we have seen, not what he has said.
So unless he has some way of actually proving that his wife was playing, then it's just a method of trying to dig himself out of the hole which he placed himself in when he decided to use a bot. Even if it DOES turn out to be the case and he really did let her play on his character, basic English is a MUST.
In the future, please keep these rules in mind before letting someone who is inexperienced with the game or cannot speak/understand basic English control your character.
Thank you
RE:??Ban list - Edward Elric - 02-09-2008 09:43 PM
Kikumaru Wrote:It's only going to get you in trouble or be banned in Spirit of Fire's case.Is it a menace?
Well I was just trying to explain what happened there....his wife has no idea how to change the chat to send to all(or any of the game mechanics). If I didnt log out on that time I would be able to prove it wasn?t a bot, because she probably replied the bot test in guild chat since she was talking with me just a while ago. Sadly I can?t prove it now, if you just can?t believe on what happened.... what can I do?!
Now its late he?s already banned and I?m going to stop here before it turn into a flame war XD.
RE:??Ban list - teOx - 02-09-2008 11:09 PM
GM-Pandora Wrote:Regardless if you were botting or not (and the evidence are definatly not in your favor), it is positivly certain that you majorly failed bot-test, and this in itself is a banable offense. There were several witness, in fact I don't think there has ever been a clearer bot-check test.
lol really?
well it damn well shouldnt be...
all governments and common sense humans go by the rule "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" correct?
and here we have testimony from a reliable person that gives MORE than reasonable doubt that he was indeed not botting right?
and i wanna say that i didnt know failing bot-tests is bannable. yeah cuz ur bot tests are perfect right? =\
this issue has nothing to do with me but damn i feel sorry for the guy and it struck me for some reason...
kikugenius Wrote:The lesson to be learned here is, do not let someone who doesn't understand basic English, or the basics of the game for that matter, play for you. It's only going to get you in trouble or be banned in Spirit of Fire's case.
roflcopter. yay ban all noobs who cant change chat!
this reminds me of long ago when i made a new char with my cousin (like 12 years old) who had never played before. i was partying with her and we got bot checked. i said hi after we got buffed and so did she, only she was in party chat. the GM started getting suspicious after she didnt say anything for like 10 seconds and i had to manually do it for her (she was next to me at the time). but OH WAIT what if she wasnt playing in the same room as me, let me guess you would have banned her right? lololol
RE: Ban list - Général_Argos - 02-09-2008 11:35 PM
teOx Wrote:all governments and common sense humans go by the rule "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY" correct?No. It doesnt work like that in some countrys~
But anyway failing a bot test is an evidence. Also, gms do bot-test manually, therefore you can add a gm as witness. Let gms do their job unless you have an evidance to bring.
teOx Wrote:roflcopter.rolfcopter
RE: Ban list - Kiki - 02-09-2008 11:55 PM
teOx Wrote:roflcopter. yay ban all noobs who cant change chat!gms can read all chats so, idk why that gm was suspicious to begin with (unless he/she didnt know how to check different chats?)
this reminds me of long ago when i made a new char with my cousin (like 12 years old) who had never played before. i was partying with her and we got bot checked. i said hi after we got buffed and so did she, only she was in party chat. the GM started getting suspicious after she didnt say anything for like 10 seconds and i had to manually do it for her (she was next to me at the time). but OH WAIT what if she wasnt playing in the same room as me, let me guess you would have banned her right? lololol
RE: Ban list - Kikumaru - 02-10-2008 12:20 AM
Ahem..to get this out on the table first, teOx...if you have a problem with me, take it up with me in PM. Do NOT quote me with your "lololol" humor and change my name to, "kikugenius", kthx.
Anyway, moving right along.
First off.."Innocent till proven guilty" doesn't work in a video game. TeOx, this isn't a country. This is just a server where the Game Masters set up particular rules and if you don't abide by those rules, then you will suffer the consequences, no questions asked.
We have a bot-test for a reason. I don't know all of the procedures, but..here goes:
First: A PM will be sent to you from a GM to confirm if you are human
Second: A GM will teleport to your current location and watch your movements
Third: A GM will give one last warning before sending you to jail or banning you
Spirit of Fire failed all three of those steps. Excuses or not, how can you expect to redeem yourself from failing all of that and honestly expect us to believe you wasn't botting? Alright, so his wife was playing and she was learning the mechanics of the game, right? Tell me this then..clearly..she knew how to kill a monster and how it died, correct? If that is the case, then how come she did not stop attacking the Wild Rose while a GM cast Sanctuary on it? Hmmm?
I'm sorry, but someone with THAT little common knowledge of the game should not be playing. "How is she supposed to learn how to play then?". Well, the BEST thing Spirit of Fire could have done was let the GMs know about this ahead of time. Say something along the lines of, "I'm trying to teach my wife how to play and also teaching her English, so I apologize if she does not reply back".
Even that wouldn't settle well with the GMs though, I would imagine. English is a must for this server. It was already a little silly to be letting someone who can't understand English to control your character. Not ONLY was it someone who couldn't understand English, but it was someone who had barely just begun playing.
So, in the end..even if his story IS true..a rule was broken regardless in his defense. The player didn't even know basic English, therefore..she shouldn't have even been past the training grounds.
Anyway, I believe the issue has already been resolved here. If anybody feels any differently, feel free to try and appeal the decision by taking it up with the GMs personally, but I don't see this case going anywhere any time soon.
I believe we are done here
EDIT: Actually, I forgot to answer something.
teOx Wrote:this reminds me of long ago when i made a new char with my cousin (like 12 years old) who had never played before. i was partying with her and we got bot checked. i said hi after we got buffed and so did she, only she was in party chat. the GM started getting suspicious after she didnt say anything for like 10 seconds and i had to manually do it for her (she was next to me at the time). but OH WAIT what if she wasnt playing in the same room as me, let me guess you would have banned her right? lololol
I don't have any problems with a 12 year old playing RO, however..if that 12 year old can't type in basic English (I'm sure she could at LEAST type out, "hi"), given how she was acting, if she didn't pass the bot-test, then she would have been jailed or banned as well, yes. TeOx, the rules aren't going to change simply because of age.
Secondly, your scenario is quite a bit different from Spirt of Fire's. You see..Spirit of Fire was in the party by himself. He didn't have anyone there to explain the details, by the time there was someone to step in and try to explain (Edward), it was too late, because he had already failed the test. Overall, it's just not a good idea to let someone who isn't familiar with computers, typing, or has a grasp of basic English to play for you.
That's pretty much all there is to it, really.
RE: Ban list - GM-Pandora - 02-10-2008 01:02 AM
I have access to the chat logs, so I will look in it to see if she was answering in guild chat.
Edit:
Alright, Ed's part of the story checks out fine, he did talk to the wife in spanish like he said. However that was in the afternoon.
Spirit seems to have regained control of the RO, and here's the last text we got from him before the conversation from the jail cel.
02/07/2008 17:18:29 - gef_fild05.gat,161,192,main,selling nut shell
Then, not a word is uttered by the character Spirit in any chat whatsoever be it guild, party, pm, main or normal, until well after the bot check:
02/07/2008 18:23:19 - sec_pri.gat,51,70,main,hey my wife is playing.
02/07/2008 18:23:32 - sec_pri.gat,51,70,main,why u jail my wife
----------------------------------------------------------------
GM-Aki started the bot check, with hidden buffs, then this:
02/07/2008 18:08:48 - gef_fild05.gat,154,196,(null),GM-Aki : hello Spirit
"hello" + the name of the character, that should not be hard to understand, regardless of what language you speak, but it was ignored.
Then at 18:11 Mystra came along as Aki's request to check the bot, and afterwards quite a few players came to witness it too. You don't have to know the game all that well to understand that people are talking to you specially when they keep calling the name of your character and following you around!
When your monster does not die for a few minutes because it is being sanctuaried you should have some kind of reaction since normally a wild rose dies in a few hits, when being sent to jail (and it looks like a jail cell there can be no mistake about it) one would expect some kind of feedback too.
Aki jailed the char at 18:18.
RE: Ban list - SyaoranShadow - 02-10-2008 01:08 AM
i experienced the time someone buffed me out of nowhere (GM-Aki was the GM) was shocked lol but still i manage to say thank you and tell her not to scare me, some lil chat lol
maybe her wife got shocked too XD
anyways this wud be a lesson for all not to let sum1 play ur accnt if they dunno abt bot test or sumthing..
juz for safety
peace to all
RE: Ban list - teOx - 02-10-2008 01:38 AM
man there are alot of opponents to the idea of innocent til proven guilty.
til you agree with that i have nothing more to say because thats been a rock solid concept in my mind for as long as i can remember.
regardless of what the outcome it makes me happy to see GMs double checking
my point is that failing a bot test should be absolute only if you think the bot-test is 100% perfect. if there is any reasonable doubt (like ed's testimony), it should be taken into consideration. after all we are talking about BANNING, instantly wiping away a person's hours and hours of work and like GMs said, it should not be taken lightly
and yeah kikumaru i have a problem with you lol. i didnt even know about this post until several friends pmed me and said damn kikumaru is annoying and i asked why and they pointed me here. and damn if i didnt agree. its the way you talk. stuff like "oh i believe were done here" and "thats all there is to it, really" and how you think youre always right and sound like youre talking down to everyone. stuff beyond my usual sarcasm. but ill do you the honor of pming you next time like you said