Mining hat

[Emerald]

First off, let me say that after I read about the hat's effect, I got dizzy and threw up in the bathroom????Hooray~!

Anyway..

I mined around 1000 picks with the mining hat today (240 per run, plus the picks the quiz NPC gives you) to get a more thorough analysis of it before posting my thoughts and noticed absolutely no change whatsoever. After my first 2 runs I thought, "Oh, maybe it just keeps you from having a bad/unprofitable adventure", but then the next attempt was just that; no golds, cards, treasure boxes, etc--and no orichalcum ores during any of the runs. All other items seem to be at the same drop rate. At least half of the drops that you get are still stones, picks break at what seems to be the same level, and you pretty much get the same results as before.

The difference between lowering the fail rate for fishing and lowering the fail rate for mining is that it probably considers getting-a-stone a success--or, rather, it's more of a 'neutral' thing, since nothing's really lost or gained since you didn't break a pick and you're most likely NOT keeping the stone that you got (onto the floor it goes!)

I assume that your chance of breaking a pick/getting a stone is 50-60% with the hat on (I compared the numbers of items gained vs stones for that.) Your chances of not-getting-anything-fishing probably aren't at all proportionate to this; the end result of having a fishing hat is highly noticable while there's no real difference when using the mining hat because the chances of getting a stone are much higher.

Either way, if what you said is true, it's about the worst quest payoff in the game I THOUGHT something might've been wrong with it when the playtester crowd didn't bother trying to get it and nobody would explain what it really did. Although chances are there's nothing that's going to be done about it, I assumed it would have been more useful if the reverse effect was given--better chance of getting benign/rare items rather than lowering the chance of getting a stone/losing a pick, or even made losing-a-pick become a MUCH rarer occurrence, making it so that you would need to buy far fewer picks to get the same end result.

...Or that it would AT LEAST stop doing THIS so frequently ?_?



End result: I'm guessing the hat is good to have under the pretense that its effect could be reconsidered and changed/enhanced (It's a LOT harder to get than observation wings), but other than that it seems useless ??Fortunately I've recently job 70'd my whitesmith and got a lot of accumulated forging materials from trying to get this thing, so... making use of that stuff will be nice???D

[Aaronock]

More like playtester crowd was never just handed a mining hat to test it out which would have been the more reasonable thing to do.

Otherwise, no we're not going to mine as long as you guys did to get the ore to make the hat :s

[GM-Aki]

I stand corrected, its +5, not 5%. Though it might need to be revised O_O.

[GM-Ayu]

think the math "should" be slightly more complicated than "+5" whatever that even means though... o.o;

[Frogboy]

i think aki means is in accordance to the pseudo code you threw up on the first page, in that the decrease to the denominator is 5 and not 5%. a difference of 5 in value does not mean that the overall randomness is changed by 5%, especially in a non-linear equation. depending on what the denominator is, a decrease of 5 can be well above 5% in the case of y being less than 100, and for any value of y greater will continually lower that value of change.

if the initial denominator is 300, then you're really only changing things by 1.25% non-linearly, which is quite negligible. the actual reduction would need to be 20 in order to proportionately make it a 5% increase in chance to gain an item rather than a break or a stone.

i'm sure i didn't need to write all that as you're a better math whiz than i am, but it's there for slicing and dicing and correcting if i'm wrong.

[Emerald]

Frogboy Wrote:MATHS

That's the way I see it. I've continued using it over the past week. After logging the contents of my cart/inventory at the end of each mining trip I'm unable to differentiate the end result between runs in which the hat is used and in which the hat isn't used, and I've done at least 10 240-pick trials by now. The only difference I notice is...

- Even though I've gone through over 2000 picks I haven't gotten any more orichalcum ores. That part is a little odd, normally it's about 1 in every 1000 picks or less.
- It could be in my head, but it takes a little longer to mine and get the same result.

Some runs go worse with the hat on than without it; and not just for rare goodies like golds/orichalcum ores/treasure boxes/martin cards, the common things like iron ores and crystal blues. That's how little its bonus effects the outcome; almost as though it isn't even there.

Mining is still nice and profitable either way and I'm thankful for that, but unfortunately the bonus that the hat provides is borderline non-existent.

[blazearmoru]

Sorry, I totally did not join heRO when this discussion ended but... This caught my eye while I was searching for guides on Thanatos Tower Party Quest (haven't found yet??~.~).

Ok...??Here's what I got from reading this topic...
I could be wrong but
Since stuff breaks after X becomes too high
and the hat kills off a bit of Y
the hat's only purpose is to prevent breakage by a bit

Let's say!! just for simplicity, Y is only 10
Y = 10 (so it's random 1~10)
1~3 good stuff
4~7 stones
8~10 pick break
so the ratio is 3:4:3
the pricks will all be broken so ignore the pick break ratio (ignore 2)
let's say that hat = -1, so y = 9 with hat
After breaking all
the ratio will still be 3:4

according to the formula given in this topic
the hat's ONLY use is cheapen the cost of bait/picks by a tiny bit, whatever 5 is ~.~

I'm going to just go ahead and assume y is atleast 300
it's more likely to be 1000 but I'll be optimistic and call it 300
5/300 = 1.666~% (1.7%)

Correct me if I'm wrong but...
to everyone who has the money to afford picks and baits, the hat simply does nothing but allow you to stay like 1.7% longer before going back to buy ammo xD.

1.7% more life for pick = 0.9832841691248771 = 1.7% discount!

Quote: By collecting Rough Orichalum item from the Advanced Mining Spot, you can purify them into Orichalum at a chance 10 with the help the old miner in front of the Coal Mines (where you first started the Mining Quest.) Once you have 10 Orichalum, you can assemble the Mining Hat. Like the Fish Head for Fishing, this hat can boost your chance of better item drops for mining.

i could be wrong but, if i am right about equation, wouldn't what's up in wikipedia be misinformation?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maybe, just maybe the hat is not y-5, but x-5
And it's not "if x == # goto~"
but rather "if x> # goto~" or "if x< # goto~"
that would explain the fish bottles.

so say for example, fish bottles is if X is less than 3 (or greater than 700), hat is x-5 (makes 7 and everything under 7 into 2 or less).??This would mean +250% bonus chance for fish bottle.

and maybe instead of fish bottles, mining just gave a bonus to stones or something... >.>;;

I'm most likely mistaken, but this is a common mistake, so just throwing it out to make sure~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

also i have a question, does the advanced spot give better items?

[TPC]

It doesn't just reduce chance of breakage, it does boost the chance of getting rare stuff a bit / reduce chance of getting stone. As for the earlier discission in this thread, it was indeed a problem with the script. The GMs boosted the effect of the mining hat to make it 5 times bigger (iirc) and it is noticable now, altough in my opinion still not as good as the fishing hat.

[Aaronock]

Personally don't want to see 100's of level 4 stones on market again, I like that level 4 weapon making has slowed down a bit.

Giving you pure ores and stuff makes it too easy to make too much zeny very fast. I know advanced mining got tweaked a lot but from one of the last scripts I tested it sure does still give too much money per hour I feel personally to sit there and press enter now (and you even get hatters now lol).

[blazearmoru]

you do!?!?!
I'M SO GONA GO MINING!!!!!!
sorry, i'm new ;; i havent found ANY cards mining yet and i'm at like 40 points.