January 2012 ToH Appreciation Thread

[Shinigami l0_0l]

well..
they could actually check the post-DC ToH situation before starting the 3rd wave. check if everyone already out from the combat area before starting the 3rd wave. they could do this, but they didnt do it. this can be considered as a GM mistake i guess.

and about the next decision made by GM that time..

they said something about re-do the 3rd and 4th wave.
why bother with 4th? there's not problem with this wave. (since its not started yet)

and again, they made correction by re-do 2nd and 3rd wave
why bother with 2nd? its already over
whoever get 10 and 5pts get their pts when they exit the combat area
whoever died got 0.
so why bother to re-do this wave?
(not to mention about the error in this wave, which i dont know the reason)

[Former-GM-Circe]

As I stated in my post, wave 2 was the first one to be broken.

Allow me to requote it.

Quote:Even if wave 3 worked fine, or didn't happen at all, round 2 still had issues from the DC-crash.
As the DC happened while the wave was still in progress, if you exited the room alive, or killed all mobs and exited alive in the ~1min between (and remember this is phase 4. This is very likely), then those people would not have received their points.
Thus, it was broken right from the DC-crash.

And yes, amazingly, GMs can typo. We realised very shortly what we'd put, and changed it to waves 2-3.

We did our best to try and diagnose the problem and fix it.


Perhaps if this happens again we'll just stop Monster Trial, and move onto Item. Of course, everyone will be down a bunch of points, but it'll certainly save everyone a lot of time, and us GMs a lot of abuse.
Especially all over main by some players.

[Shinigami l0_0l]

Shinigami l0_0l Wrote:well..
they could actually check the post-DC ToH situation before starting the 3rd wave. check if everyone already out from the combat area before starting the 3rd wave. they could do this, but they didnt do it. this can be considered as a GM mistake i guess.

if they check the 2nd wave situation post DC before starting the 3rd one, there would be less problem? (even yes, takes time to check, at least without rage)
but they didnt check, and lot more time and rage wasted?

GM-Circe Wrote:Perhaps if this happens again we'll just stop Monster Trial, and move onto Item. Of course, everyone will be down a bunch of points, but it'll certainly save everyone a lot of time, and us GMs a lot of abuse.
Especially all over main by some players.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL...
for real?
imho, they should tryting to reanalyze the code, add more error-handling so at least this will not happens again

or at least, if this happens again, give compensation to the victim of this error (which is finally given by panda, instead of the current host). All they do is just kinda like "lets all redo the phase, and for the one who unlucky enough, better luck next time"

[Former-GM-Glyph]

The NPC attaches the timers to the GM who uses it to start the Wave. If they DC at all, the timer gets broken and all hell breaks loose.

I was not aware of the fact that the timers were attached to me until after we started looking into what caused it. Yes, we had to get Pandora to assist us with this, had to explain what happened to her, and Circe tried to ease the pain by hosting a small trivia event while we looked into it.

And all the while we're getting abuse over the fact that something occurred beyond our power and we were taking some time to try and fix it.

And Shinigami, I don't have access to the code at all, I didn't write the code, and have not been at liberty to even read the script for Trial of Heroes. The only information available to me as a GM is how to run the event if nothing goes horribly wrong.

Will there be changes if this happens again? Well yes, now that we know what the issues were.

Am I going to apologize again on the forums? No, already apologized in game and don't see a reason to do so again.

Do we GM's need to put up with an hour straight of abuse for things beyond our control? No, we shouldn't have to put up with that.

Do I have anything else to say? Just one thing for this thread.

Shit happens, get over it.

[Former-GM-Forge]

Surprisingly, you are not the first person to have that thought. A long time ago I did analyze the script. I suggested ways to fix it. The decision was made to leave it as is.

You should learn to accept the situation as it is, and get over it. What happened has happened. It was a learning experience for everyone involved. The GMs involved have not had to deal with the situation before. I am told that no GM ever has. They were doing what they could with the knowledge and access they had to make it as fair on everyone as possible. You are just making it harder for them to do their job by arguing in hindsight.

Personally, I don't believe there should be any sort of compensation in the Trial of Heroes. It is a trial. You need to overcome the obstacles, even the unintended ones. But that is just me.

[Shinigami l0_0l]

Shinigami l0_0l Wrote:my comment : GM should admit and apologize to player if they made a mistake

this is my very first post in this thread.
i sense the GM made mistake, but i never actually find their explanation or apologize either in game or in forum. the only thing that bothers me is this.

how bout the rest?
because they keep avoiding imho.. that's all

yes, in ToH we need to overcome obstacles, but not by technical or GM error.

GM-Glyph Wrote:And Shinigami, I don't have access to the code at all, I didn't write the code, and have not been at liberty to even read the script for Trial of Heroes. The only information available to me as a GM is how to run the event if nothing goes horribly wrong.

soo, they player need to overcome the obstacles if nothing goes horribly wrong as well, right?

question to glyph
did u start the 2nd wave of 4th phase?
if yes, i guess it's easy to find out that the timer of 2nd phase attached to you as well

and after u DC or crashed or anything goes wrong with u, did u check the 2nd wave condition post-crashed?

and i never rly expect u got access for the code. the advice is not exclusive for you. My advice earlier is for the GM team.

[Former-GM-Forge]

Your first comment was answered. There was no mistakes made. Just because you 'sense' that there was, doesn't mean that there was.

How about the rest of what? The actions taken by the GMs was everything they could do within their knowledge and power to try get the trial going again. At the time of the problems, Glyph knew nothing of the timers that make ToH work. After the DC, Circe told Glyph about the timers and how they work, since I had explained it in the past.
Glyph and Circe checked EVERYTHING they have access to, trying to find out as much as they could about the situation. Circe reasoned that starting the next wave would start the next timers, and sort things out. This was a perfectly logical decision, based on the information they had access to at the time.

It is *my* opinion that there be no compensation. Not the opinion of the GM team. Mine. And as I was not hosting, and I am not in charge, my opinion is just that: an opinion.

And yes, when things don't go wrong, you do still need to overcome the obstacles of the trials. I would have thought that is obvious, but you did ask.

[Shinigami l0_0l]

again, i guess it's easy to find out that the timer of 2nd phase attached to him if he start the phase..

and did the GM team realize that there's still some dead player inside the combat arena? i saw the 2nd wave fighter dead in the combat area when i enter the combat area. (with her share of monster as well)
sooo... why start the phase with dead body inside? is it not covered in your definition of EVERYTHING they have access?

even if circe thinks that starting the next phase will fix the problem, the dead player still need to be ressed and walked out the room etc etc.. (which will ended up as 2 player in 1 combat arena)
or did circe assume that if he start the next wave the 2nd wave fighter will be gone from the combat arena as well?

and i asked that because glyph said he got the information as GM to run the event if nothing goes horribly wrong.
so what's wrong for asking compensation from the player victim if the event goes horribly wrong?
fairness issue

and imho
saying something like "Shit happens, get over it." is very inappropriate for a GM.

[Ptah]

Wow, this is a nice drama thread. I just can't avoid~
For first, even if he/she/them/whoever DC'd, then got back and saw that timer doesn't move, then for Christ sake, i agree it was GM's fault to not check rooms, especially since they could ask people (not to mention when next wave started a HUGE bunch of people were still dead inside there, and cried about it, and an intime question would save wave 3 from facing double the amount of mobs). Next thing: I don't believe Circe nor Glyph never saw/took part in other ToHs and didn't know that killing monsters and ressing players happens when timer reaches zero. It didn't => mobs were still alive, people still were dead. Yes, they didn't face it before, but the logic shouldn't fade away, especially not from GMs, they are GMs after all. If you can't manage such things, why the f*** you even bother HOSTING?! In any real life events host takes all the blame for EACH AND EVERY thing that went wrong. That's the point of being host. So in my sight it's still GM team mistake.
Yeah, about obstacles, yadayadayada, and so on, people did overcome it (and as Panda said, even after 1.5hours of wait MOST of people still were on). But that's not the point. Point is: we all heard excuses from Panda (tho she was there to resolve someone else's mistake *I'm looking on you, Glyph and Circe*), and even not so sure, but i heard Circe apologizing, yet none from Glyph. I really want to see WHERE he apologized for what happened, i'd take a screenie of it for sure.
Phail Glyph is phail.

Now to the other parts. Monster trial was easy as hell. But that always happens when monsters are unchanged and from usual dungeons. Meh.
Item. This one was a joke. A bad joke. Just from the start i looked on those 26 genie's lamp and said go to hell. It's not happening in 20 minutes. Glyph has some weird sense of humor.
Now for the trivia part. I didn't take part since i already fell asleep mid-PvP (more 1.5h waits, everyone?). And don't tell me about "in old days ToH took 100500 hours to finish. It were old days. And back then people KNEW that it takes that long, and prepared beforehand. This time it was said to be ~4 hours long alltogether (ToH trial announcement on forums), and all ended up losing at least 2 hours on very first trial.
If i'll think of any more complaints or more ridiculous/stupid/lively ideas, i won't hesitate to post those. And again, host takes all the blame. If you want to see people die to your monsters, take some time preapring for such kind of mishups. Shit happens, all right, the point is, this time we all sank deep down in it, and were there long enough to get our complaints heard, at very least.

EDIT inregards (just got some more thoughts): You know, Glyph, rules are made not only for players. And i like 1 little tiny part of them to be heard by you:

Server rules from wiki Wrote:Final rule

Lastly, if by your action(s) or inaction(s) you cause harm or seriously hinder another character's playing experience, punishments may be given according to the severity of the action(s) or inaction(s).

Oh, and not knowing something is not an excuse, otherwise we'd all be breaking rules and telling "we didn't have any idea".

[Former-GM-Glyph]

Given that a GM made a thread on third classes that ended with a link to someone getting stabbed over and over again should more questions about it be asked, I think I'm well within the threshold of what I can and can't say before it gets inappropriate.

And no, I did not realize anything had gone wrong until I had started Wave 3, because I did not know that my character disconnecting would mess with anything pertaining to Monster Trial. After Wave 3, me and Circe even told others not to go in on this next run while we made sure it worked.

We then decided to let Wave 2 go again because that is where the issue started. We then learned that they couldn't go again, which means that round 2 and round 3 were going to need us looking further into it. (Not helped by the fact that people were confused by me saying that the 2nd Wave is the one going in when I started it again after me and Circe cleared it)

At this point while we were discussing, and looking into the issue, Pandora came back, so I started explaining it to her while Circe tried to calm things down via the small Trivia Event. Pandora then helped clear the matter up.

And to say again, as has been pointed out already, this is the FIRST time this has happened. So yes, we are going to look into the issue as it happens, discuss how to handle it and then seek assistance with the Admin if our ideas aren't working.

Because, again, the script stopped both Wave 2 and Wave 3 from competing with the Bradium Golems a second time because they had already gone. We do not have access to magically change that variable.

And as for asking for compensation, can we get some for the hour of nonstop abuse while we tried to fix things and get the event moving again?

If not, I can certainly give you an answer to that question.

And if you think I'm being inappropriate and snarky at this point, you are right. I am annoyed at the fact that while trying to fix everything, and finding out that a lot of it is beyond our power to control, due to a random fluke disconnect on my part, that some players decided they were entitled to ridicule and heap on the blame.

I can usually take it, dish it back out with a laugh and move on. But an hour straight because shit happened and we were taking our time to try and fix it and figure out a solution? Completely ridiculous.