Equipment destruction in Muspel

[mahawirasd]

i get the disarm etc, but the fact that some muspel monsters have AD means that it kinda forces people to go as or with a WS. Now sure this might be a good thing to ensure better class participation-distribution, but the way muspel is right now a WS-hp duo is sufficient so before that changes i kinda feel that idea is not relevant.

now here's the thing, this kinda limits the chance for people to play other classes. I used to get disarmed in muspel quite a bit and i think that is quite acceptable as a hindrance without needing a particular class to ensure a doable run.

So yeah, maybe add various strips other than disarm weapon, but maybe having AD to destroy various equips maybe too limiting.

What do others think about this?


W

[The Legendary Joe]

Wear golem carded weapons and cornutus armor or have a blacksmith type with repair (not necessary to be trans to get the skill) or an alchemist for preventative measures (even non-trans alchemists have chemical protect skills, though it's more cost effective for Creators with Full chem Protect).

[GM-Garr]

I'm closer to agree with Joe on the matter here. Besides the 3 methods mentioned, you can also keep in mind that there are innate indestructible weapons, namely axes, staves, books and maces (those are the ones I can call from the top of my head). Also, unbreakable armors do exist. Bringing spare ones is an option. I don't think it limits the party choice, as bringing a priest with you that will put pneuma up will protect you from damage along the gear breaking effect. So here you have at least 6 ways to counter, 5 of which do not involve Smith, and 1 is a way for every class without relying on anything from outside (carding).

Also, I don't think you're able to finish current Muspel with WS/HP duo alone.

P.S. This post is not GM team opinion on the matter, but purely my own. If I'm wrong please feel free to prove otherwise.

[mahawirasd]

i totally understand all that, just saying that it clearly limits options for those other classes and definitely reduces dps.

well arguably if they are patient and well geared enough then they can. Dunno if you guys changed the selkies yet again for that cart revo way to work tho...


W

[Menace651]

(01-12-2015 05:02 AM)The Legendary Joe Wrote:  Wear golem carded weapons and cornutus armor or have a blacksmith type with repair (not necessary to be trans to get the skill) or an alchemist for preventative measures (even non-trans alchemists have chemical protect skills, though it's more cost effective for Creators with Full chem Protect).

^ This. Muspel is already way to easy. It's an end-game dungeon and should require at least some half decent gears/skills/classes to do. If anything it should be made harder. Make it Pasana required, exp loss, no auto-res. If other end-game dungeons like Thors, DG, Nydd require you to have half decent gears to do so should Muspel. Making it a no gears required easy leech-fest was a bad idea that has pretty much killed every other end-game dungeon.

[cane 33]

(01-12-2015 05:51 AM)GM-Garr Wrote:  Also, I don't think you're able to finish current Muspel with WS/HP duo alone.

WS alone is enough now

[The Legendary Joe]

While it IS possible to duo/Solo with specific classes, Muspelheim was intended as a place where a party is required. MVP's have always kind of have been restricted. Asura Champions and Snipers have almost always dominated the MVP scene. Acid demonstration is still pretty powerful, but since the majority of MVP's had their vit's lowered to about 30-ish, they aren't as broken as they used to be. Cart Termination is pretty powerful as well with that insane DPS.

I don't think that changing if monsters can destroy/strip gears will do much to make my Battle High priest or Pure Spear LK dish out the damage that a WS can with CT.

[Zeroxas]

I MvP on my LK just for the challenge and fun, I can Solo muspel floor one (Real muspel) + event , I can make my way to surtur and kill off the faf's alone. its just surtur I'm still working on, just throwing my opinion out there that I can do this stuff with a Lord Knight alone, so I'm with Joe + Garr on this, it is doable by any class and in my opinion personally Skill+ Class knowledge > Gears , i dont own any high-end gears and pull this off just fine.

[Story Teller]

[mahawirasd]

hey, no one is saying "make it easier" - i did say "add various strips" to compensate in my very first post... and it's not even edited... go read it again...

all i'm saying is that this is about locking people in and possible counterplays....

if anything, i would argue more strips WOULD make it harder overall as well as forcing people to party MORE. Case in point: a duo ws-hp or just a solo ws can easily manage various equipment breaks, but disarm would really force them to think harder OR EVEN *GASP* enlarge their party to include a chemist and/or prof...

and, to be clear, "adding" here may mean both add more "types" of strips as well as skill "frequency" and "lvl" or "success rate"...

so yeah, adding possible counterplays means adding more possible roles which means making muspel look more like an end-game dungeon which does all you guys have prescribed above:
"Muspelheim was intended as a place where a party is required."
"It's an end-game dungeon and should require at least some half decent gears/skills/classes to do. If anything it should be made harder."

and joe, of course some classes inherently have more damage output than others, but limiting some classes to certain equips which further limit their dps while the most common DPS-dealer in that dungeon can do without those special equips does kind of play into those imbalances rather than give other classes/builds a better chance at shining/performing...