Dungeons requiring less people

[Kiwis]

Popular parties in heRO these days are aimed towards 'race-course' style dungeons - those with a start and finish. Such as muspel, nydd, or thana. Asides the lack of gear, and access, no one really wants to do parties at thors, nameless, or abyss anymore. Which is reasonable, since the former set of parties provide a common goal for the entire party, a set (or approximate) duration, and shows their progress more quantitatively (in terms of floor level).

However, one problem I notice is that a lot of these dungeons always require a minimum of 6-7 players to do (typically: bragi, wiz, priest, lure, sniper, sp). Which isn't the easiest thing to get these days (especially on weekdays).
But then there's Kushiel. Getting to him doesn't require that many - as low as 4 people - but still feels quite engaging, just as much as muspel/nydd/thana. Often times, at pront, we'll have 3-5 people up for a party, but then there's nothing to do since we're often missing as little as ONE person. Hence, we end up just going back to AFKing.

So my suggestion for possible future dungeons would be to have more 'racecourse' style dungeons that don't require too many people, (maybe 3-5) - putting more emphasis on the number of players, rather than the type of players.
In addition, not being over-spammable/repeatable, but can still be done semi-regularly. I think Kushiel is a great example (Thanks). And, of course, depending on the prizes/drops at the end, I do think this will bring up party counts up. (Heck, thana drops terrible stuff, but people still do it for the fun of it)

[Peeka~]

It's a good idea. I approve the above message.

Though now i'm hungry, dunno why *looks at Kiwi's signature except for the last name*

[Kiwis]

don't eat my bird

[GM-Ayu]

Thana indirectly got better now, and mathematicallly always drop 2 runes for the party to make the hardest costumes[

Looking at the dev schedule for all of 2018, we actually don't have any "race course" style in the pipelines, even though we certainly want more Thanatos like dungeon: where gear requirement is relatively low as you don't need a specific elemental armor unlike say Thor, yet still requires a small party to complete.

Though Octopus is supposed to be that super small easy party, turns out it still needs water armor due to waterball spammage, and the seafood equip is not very exciting to most players... or maybe some players need to give it more chances: as long as you do have water armor, octopus does allow for more awkward combination of parties too.

As for what's coming down the pipe: 2018's new maps will be more "open" field where the mvps aren't clearly at the end of a dungeon. It's our goal to have one high end dungeon released this year cause we're stuck on nydd/orcus/bio3 as the 3 high end dungeon for the longest time already, and almost no one attempts the last of those 3.

[The Roger]

Basic parties (talking about common players) are clown+highwizard+highpriest, or clown+sniper+professor+highpriest

Clown, HP, HW, prof, sniper, lurer, others... its a luxury xD

3-4 players are enough for like, everything non-mvp.

Quote:putting more emphasis on the number of players, rather than the type of players

what does that mean? you're saying "its not possible to do parties because we dont have enough numbers" and then you want emphasis on players number? XD


Historic base party is HW+HP+Bard since the dawn of RO.
THEN, adding one man like a lurer will increase efficiency, and adding one and two more as prof and snipers will increase efficieny even more: every mob will end up obliterated almost instantly.



Of course we always want the maximum efficiency, but wanting at all costs a 7-man-party or you doesnt even start... cmon...
HW, HP and a bard, and the HP will lure for the HW.
Go.

[hachigatsu30]

Quote:Hence, we end up just going back to AFKing.

Could always do that anyway.

I agree with Roger. Basic RO party have always been Wiz-Priest-Bard. Everything else is a plus.

I think what Bird/Fruit is saying is an easy mid-high end "race course" party, or something like If only Nameless was a race course or I wish Thana drops weren't so out-of-date.

So I think we need an MVP dungeon that can be done with 3-4 people in about an hour, that isn't Asurabait, and that drops something of decent use.

[Kiwis]

You completely misunderstood my entire post.

(03-09-2018 01:14 PM)The Roger Wrote:  Basic parties (talking about common players) are clown+highwizard+highpriest, or clown+sniper+professor+highpriest

Clown, HP, HW, prof, sniper, lurer, others... its a luxury xD

3-4 players are enough for like, everything non-mvp.

>wasn't talking about basic parties, talking about 'racecourse' parties, meaning they have an mvp (or some sort) at the end, like the examples I obviously, and explicitly stated. hwiz isn't enough, unless you're talking about bare minimum, which then, arguably, HP with a pet is bare minimum.
>and if we're talking about efficiency, you can't say the bare minimum is enough, since completion time will be extremely unreasonable.
Take the example of thana, sure you can finish it with bragi wiz HP as a bare minimum, but completion time will be unreasonable. The regular setup of 5-6 people becomes the standard, and then, the new 'bare minimum'.

>and the reason this post doesn't talk about BASIC parties is because no one wants to do them. This post is focusing on doing dungeons people WANT, but CANNOT do, as a limitation to the quantity of players online.

(03-09-2018 01:14 PM)The Roger Wrote:  

Quote:putting more emphasis on the number of players, rather than the type of players

what does that mean? you're saying "its not possible to do parties because we dont have enough numbers" and then you want emphasis on players number? XD

>putting emphasis on the NUMBER of players rather than the JOBS required has not been a priority when introducing new maps/mvps, according to my analysis. Since, it's always been "What will hero players need to kill this?", rather than "What sort of setup will be required, as a whole, and therefore, how many players will be needed to kill this?".
>I'm saying it's not possible to do CERTAIN popular parties (i.e. racecourse parties - which is the topic of entire post).

(03-09-2018 01:14 PM)The Roger Wrote:  Historic base party is HW+HP+Bard since the dawn of RO.
THEN, adding one man like a lurer will increase efficiency, and adding one and two more as prof and snipers will increase efficieny even more: every mob will end up obliterated almost instantly.

>again, not talking about BASIC parties.

(03-09-2018 01:14 PM)The Roger Wrote:  Of course we always want the maximum efficiency, but wanting at all costs a 7-man-party or you doesnt even start... cmon...
HW, HP and a bard, and the HP will lure for the HW.
Go.

>again, not talking about BASIC parties.
>Try finishing muspel with bragi, wiz, priest
>Try killing nydd with 3 people

(03-09-2018 11:03 PM)hachigatsu30 Wrote:  

Quote:Hence, we end up just going back to AFKing.

I think what Bird/Fruit is saying is an easy mid-high end "race course" party, or something like If only Nameless was a race course or I wish Thana drops weren't so out-of-date.

I don't mind that thana doesn't drop too good stuff, that's not the point of the topic - besides, the dungeon itself drops a variety of average-good stuff.

(03-09-2018 11:03 PM)hachigatsu30 Wrote:  So I think we need an MVP dungeon that can be done with 3-4 people in about an hour, that isn't Asurabait, and that drops something of decent use.

This is exactly what I meant yes thank you.

[Bakorzero]

Time to deploy supportive merchenary and pets

[The Legendary Joe]

With the advent of the Judgement Set, I vote for more Priest only parties!

Battle Priests! Tanker Builds and Supports, Exorcists! So Many heals! So much Ressurections! In theory, this party would never die. They can Suffagium the ME priests to help replace the bragi in terms of casting speed boosts (should be able to heal and Swall and all the support stuff to make the aftercast delay not matter so much). What wouldn't be killable with the ME/Healbomb/Ress-Bomb/TU/Holy Light spams, the battle priests can team up and Mace them in the face.

My problem with race course styled dungeons is that it really sucks when you personally want to farm 1 floor and the rest of the party wants to do the full run (Like vidar's on F3 of thana, now that the specialty warp has been removed, I can't solo-farm that stuff as easily anymore q.q).

I want specific items from SOME of the mobs in the Mystic tower, but there's only so many of them in said tower until the whole thing is re-summoned.

I would love more Thor's but it's always been pretty exclusive to get a party there. Gears help A LOT, but if your team is amazing with the Pneuma's and the standing in the right place, it should still be theoretically possible. You gotta play smart and there's little room for errors, unless you don't mind multiple wipes. When I was in my guilded days, Thors was one of those places where if you were recruiting off of main, their skills and their gears with their class was almost always... ehh. You were better off partying with friends and guildies whom you know have some skills or know how to react to certain situations. Pasana's are the baseline due to the frequent firebreath (though Pneuma blocks it). Oh right, I guess Phen or Orleans Gown would be preferable there too, Freaking Bleeding <_>;;

(03-09-2018 01:14 PM)The Roger Wrote:  Historic base party is HW+HP+Bard since the dawn of RO.

Wrong, RO hasn't always had 2-2 Jobs, When RO first came out, they had Knights, hunters, Wizards, Blacksmiths, Priests, and Assassins at the start. (Actually, not sure, but I think they actually started with the base classes before those were even available. Gogo gadget Mage, Aco, melee class party!)

Basic form of a party is a Tank, a healer and a Damage dealer. One class can perform multiple roles. Items can (kinda) be substituted for the healer (or other support options). Melee classes with their damage can tank and deal damage. This Triangle of Tank, healer and Support predates RO even.

Some parties can forgo the tank if their ranged Damage can do enough damage to kill before they even get close enough to be a threat, or are able to Kite their quarry so that they would never reach them in the first place. If they're good enough at Kiting, they don't need to heal, and if they don't need to heal or have a tank, then they're pretty much solo-ing at that point.

Somehow, all the Support characters RO has need to up their game to be relevant. Bards and dancers have an Amazing selection of support skills, but (without the Poet's set) Bards only really get asked for Bragi, and Dancers if they're in a party are either for service or just leeching (though Slow grace is quite nice as a backup that stacks with quagmire, and who doesn't like flashing Lady Luck to Boost that crit rate for those Sharp Shooting Snipers *-* Admittedly, Humming doesn't seem to have much use outside of Niche situations).

[The Roger]

Joe... i know... but its pointless to talk about an era soooo in the past, sooo primitive that it was basically a different game.

@Kiwis: ooooof course there are exceptions like nydd, like bio3 place.
imho i can finish Muspel alone tho lol. but in two is better as its less resources-intensive.

You can finish thana as hw-hp-bard, oooooof course it will take more time. Do you want to use less time? Then what you're seeking is efficiency. The real thana problem is: its locked behind a 5-people seal.

"Bare minimum is a HP with [strong] pet [and excellent gears]": i dont call that a "bare minimum. Then my HW with 145 dex and two Kiel cards could be a bare minimum. Its only a numerical players's quantity minimum, "1", but even ungeared bards, priests and wizards together can do stuff.

">and the reason this post doesn't talk about BASIC parties is because no one wants to do them. This post is focusing on doing dungeons people WANT, but CANNOT do, as a limitation to the quantity of players online."
You dont need 7 players to Nydd for example. But nydd dungeon is a bad example because its made in a way that pushes the players to eliminate threats as fast as possible hence the asura-champ main-killer for common-monsters.
There are two ways to overcome an obstacle in RO: gather more people to deal more damage or stack up to much power on a single person to be basically a one-man-army. Now, which of these two scenarios is the easiest? Where you see 7 people i might see 4.
The real topic should be: Lower or remove at all the F3 thana tower entrance requirement of people.

I just want Thana tower to not have a seal for upper floors. We're grown up enough to enter there alone now, lol.


Anyway: Muspel is usually 2+ ppl, Thana is a lowermust of 5, nydd is 4 godly players or 5 with double HP or 6 with dancer or 7 with pally... BUT NYDD IS A DIFFERENT CASE; dont forget Endless Tower: of course you cant even hope to finish it without the perfect party for it, but your party can reach for sure pretty high. See how far up you can reach, bois.
Biolab3 isnt really a place where to go getting exp, its a place for bio3 mvps walled behind a hell of mvp-like common monsters to increase the challenge/difficulty to absurd levels.

Racecourseslike dungeons are a pretty recent thing in RO, and officially those are in the form of Instances. We are missing lots of instances, those in a future could be implemented but not before heavy reworks and rebalances from renewal to pre-re.