Super Novice Bow

[Brent]

See I had no idea you could multi qoute but what ever

[Cheesecake]

azurerogue Wrote:There is an edit button for a reason, so you know.??Also, you say SNs should be able to do things other classes can't when they're by themselves...??and you're a caster SN.??Tell me, what can your SN do that an Instant-Cast High Wizard can't do better???I'm not trying to fight with you, but there is NO role a SN can fill better than some other class - the advantage they get is not doing any one thing better, but being able to do more things (which is, actually, destroyed by trying to focus on instant-cast SN, since that removes much of their diversity).??

For Melee builds: almost any trans (or even second non-trans) melee class can outdamage them.??They can potentially get about as much flee as a second-class thief could, but that's about it (they might even be able to get about ten more, not sure).

Fo caster builds: any dedicated caster can out-DPS a super novice, especially instant cast HWiz (but even a double-bolt professor).??

In general: Super Novice is a novelty class.??Yes, they can actually do a decent job in select situations with certain builds, but if you ever expect them to stand up to serious competition you will most likely be disappointed.??They don't have the durability of most other classes, and they don't have the offensive capability, either.

This is an extremely ignorant post. SN's ability to instant cast without help is what makes it a better general caster than a HWiz. If you want to count help then you're saying the class isn't good on its own which is what you are accusing SN of. A proper super novice player can take on trans and 20k+ DPS with Bragi, or a good 10k DPS with their own buffs (Simply because cool down is 3 seconds.) The only reason people go for IC SN is because of its damage output and PVP and thats generally where you find the most fun.

[mahawirasd]

Brent Wrote:Double strike only works with dagger class weapons =p

GT-Hiro Wrote:Also, Double attack does work with other weapons, it just has to be in the form of an Injustice card.

Brent Wrote:By injustice you meen sidewinder injustice is sonic blow and side winder is 5% chance to cast level one far from level 10 as mentioned earlier and I fully belive that a sn would be at a disadvantige with the baby wings but that's not the point thank for a good reason no sprites I'm not trying to start a fight btw. The wings don't allow succubus and incubus combo and thanks for reply on link

sadly there is an item called Baby Chick or Chick Hat...
Chick Hat [0] [Upper Head] Item ID# 5283 (Chick_Hat)
Type Armor Class Upper Headgear Buy 20z Sell 10z Weight 10
Defense 1 Required Lvl 10 Slot 0
Refineable No
Applicable Jobs
Every Job
Description A hat with cute little chick on it. It's hopping action is so cute.
Allows usage Level 2 Double Attack, and if you already know higher than Level 2 Double Attack, then the appropriate level will be used instead.
Reduce damage from DemiHuman monster by 3%.
LUK + 2, Maximum HP/SP + 50
Impossible to refine this item.
Item Script { bonus bLuk,2; bonus bMaxHP,50; bonus bMaxSP,50; bonus bDoubleRate,10; bonus2 bSubRace,RC_DemiHuman,3; },{},{}

Baby Chicks are often used by katar sins or bow rogues to make most use of their double attack skill

so yeah, bow SN would break the game IMHO...


-w-

[Frogboy]

Cheesecake Wrote:

azurerogue Wrote:There is an edit button for a reason, so you know.??Also, you say SNs should be able to do things other classes can't when they're by themselves...??and you're a caster SN.??Tell me, what can your SN do that an Instant-Cast High Wizard can't do better???I'm not trying to fight with you, but there is NO role a SN can fill better than some other class - the advantage they get is not doing any one thing better, but being able to do more things (which is, actually, destroyed by trying to focus on instant-cast SN, since that removes much of their diversity).??

For Melee builds: almost any trans (or even second non-trans) melee class can outdamage them.??They can potentially get about as much flee as a second-class thief could, but that's about it (they might even be able to get about ten more, not sure).

Fo caster builds: any dedicated caster can out-DPS a super novice, especially instant cast HWiz (but even a double-bolt professor).??

In general: Super Novice is a novelty class.??Yes, they can actually do a decent job in select situations with certain builds, but if you ever expect them to stand up to serious competition you will most likely be disappointed.??They don't have the durability of most other classes, and they don't have the offensive capability, either.

This is an extremely ignorant post. SN's ability to instant cast without help is what makes it a better general caster than a HWiz. If you want to count help then you're saying the class isn't good on its own which is what you are accusing SN of. A proper super novice player can take on trans and 20k+ DPS with Bragi, or a good 10k DPS with their own buffs (Simply because cool down is 3 seconds.) The only reason people go for IC SN is because of its damage output and PVP and thats generally where you find the most fun.

instacast isn't all it's cracked up to be. honestly any class with decent mdef negates instacast, or if they're extremely lucky enough to have a GTB card, though i don't usually consider that case as the rarity of it is so high will be able to stand up to your instacast SN and outheal well enough with fish (especially with nemos and dorys). SN only really excells at pvm fighting as it's not that difficult to get decent mdef or if the class can't get mdef, then there's always the frilldora card that grants cloaking, or the class in question has the hide skill already, thus nullifying any damage you might be able to do since the only real way of unhiding/cloaking those characters is through sight or ruwach as you don't have heaven's drive which i believe does unhide/cloak people. again like albus said, they're just a novelty class that are quite fun to play with, but don't really ever expect them to be competitive enough for pvp or woe. you may get lucky a few times, but most often you'll die fairly quickly as your own hp cannot keep up, nor can your healing.

[Cheesecake]

Insta-cast SN won TOH's PVP contest ~_~

Also your argument about hide is stupid /swt
Ruwach and no cast time..

[azurerogue]

Okay.??You call my post ignorant.??I'll fight your SN as my Professor and we'll see how Super Novice does.??Or we'll put your SN up against my Creator.??Hell, I'll fight your super novice as my almost-naked Rogue.??You can claim my post is ignorant if you want, but just because you have pride in being a SN doesn't make them a "good" class.??Sure they can beat other people in PvP (but, then again, so can a Novice if they're lucky enough) occasionally, but that certainly doesn't make them good.??

So, yea, call my post ignorant.??I clearly don't know anything about RO or Super Novices.??You can defend them all you want, but the truth is Super Novices (even played by a good player) are not match for almost any trans class that's played by a semi-competent player.??And what do you mean by "Instant-cast SN won TOH's PvP contest"???There's not just one winner, last time I made it to a ToH.??Also, like Frogboy said, stacking MDEF vs a caster SN is pretty much the end for them.

EDIT: As long as we're being rude, I'd like to point out that your claim that SN's ability to insta-cast without help is what makes them a better general caster than HWIZ is actually the ignorant claim here. They're ability to instant cast makes them a better SPECIALIZED caster (not general). Wizards can instant cast if they want, but they can also instead go for like 140 INT and cast AoEs that can dish out over 10k per hit. Let me know when your SN can offer mob control like that. Further, a Bolter Professor can out DPS you individually any day.

Again, Super Novices can be fun in PvM, but they can be outperformed in any area that want to specialize in by some other class.

[Wallee]

azurerogue Wrote:Okay.??You call my post ignorant.??I'll fight your SN as my Professor and we'll see how Super Novice does.??Or we'll put your SN up against my Creator.??Hell, I'll fight your super novice as my almost-naked Rogue.??You can claim my post is ignorant if you want, but just because you have pride in being a SN doesn't make them a "good" class.??Sure they can beat other people in PvP (but, then again, so can a Novice if they're lucky enough) occasionally, but that certainly doesn't make them good.??

So, yea, call my post ignorant.??I clearly don't know anything about RO or Super Novices.??You can defend them all you want, but the truth is Super Novices (even played by a good player) are not match for almost any trans class that's played by a semi-competent player.??And what do you mean by "Instant-cast SN won TOH's PvP contest"???There's not just one winner, last time I made it to a ToH.??Also, like Frogboy said, stacking MDEF vs a caster SN is pretty much the end for them.

EDIT: As long as we're being rude, I'd like to point out that your claim that SN's ability to insta-cast without help is what makes them a better general caster than HWIZ is actually the ignorant claim here.??They're ability to instant cast makes them a better SPECIALIZED caster (not general).??Wizards can instant cast if they want, but they can also instead go for like 140 INT and cast AoEs that can dish out over 10k per hit.??Let me know when your SN can offer mob control like that.??Further, a Bolter Professor can out DPS you individually any day.??

Again, Super Novices can be fun in PvM, but they can be outperformed in any area that want to specialize in by some other class.??

Lol , Ill take your prof anytime in pvp. You keep saying its easy to get mdef and kill Instant SN, as you know SN can get mdef too. Prof are easy target for them aswell. Yeah you can kill my SN with your creator cant do much vs a 99 homun . Since when can HW get instant cast? Oh yeah , you need a preist+ a pally! good luck getting that while SN instant cast your face with 1100 matt .

oH and you might double bolt me for like what? 4k? I heal myself for 3k kthxbye.

[Zaratus]

If you do that fight, announce it please, I am sure, many ppl want to see cute IC SN get owned.

Edit: Btw, I want you see doing 3k heals, only High Priests with Meditatio, High Int and a good Staff reach that. And as Super Novice I think if you stack Mdef equip, you will lose lots of HP and YOUR EPIC INSTANT CAST AND YOUR EPIC MATK (which doesn't exist imo). While Prof can easily grab a Staff of Piercing and own you thru your mdef while having a nice Matk, Casttime AND Mdef. AND I want to see how the SN does ANYTHING without having SP due to Soul Burn. Or how he gets PWNED by Stone Curse. NO way you could EVER win against a prof.
And High Wizard only needs Priest for insta cast.

[azurerogue]

Wallee Wrote:Lol , Ill take your prof anytime in pvp. You keep saying its easy to get mdef and kill Instant SN, as you know SN can get mdef too. Prof are easy target for them aswell. Yeah you can kill my SN with your creator cant do much vs a 99 homun . Since when can HW get instant cast? Oh yeah , you need a preist+ a pally! good luck getting that while SN instant cast your face with 1100 matt .

oH and you might double bolt me for like what? 4k? I heal myself for 3k kthxbye.

Profs are an easy target for SNs? I'd love to see your SN find a way around even me just simply Magic Rodding all your spells. Wall of Fog + Magic Rod > SN. Uh... if you don't know how to get instant cast on non-SN casters at least don't claim that you know what you're talking about. All Wizard OR Prof needs to get instant cast is a Bless. Sure, they can't give that to themselves... but they can still out DPS you...

Also, your instant cast 1100 MATK bolts would deal between 810-1640 damage after various reductions and even just 35 MDEF. Not to mention that Wall of Fog grants me a 75% for your skills to just fail. I would also like to see you healing for 3k per heal. You see, unlike your posts which are based on assumptions mine are based on numbers, calculations, and prior experience. Unless you have an AoE spell, just Magic Rod alone > SN. If you DO have an AoE, then I'll LP and THEN Magic Rod.

So, yea, let's meet in PvP sometime and you can show me how awesome instant cast is.

[GM-Aki]

WARNING WARNING: no flaming will be tolerated. Excessive flaming will cause the thread to close.

WARNING WARNING: no flaming will be tolerated. Excessive flaming will cause the thread to close.