The speed of the chat boxs

[Session]

I partially agree with you Irxallis, you made a good point. Though, I disagree with your statement about a fisher/miner being "useless" to other players, usually when I fish or mine,(mostly fish) I am talking to guildmates, or talking to a friend on heRO. I find fishing terribly boring, but I definitely cannot multitask to the point of having a book in front of me, read, and click...I just cannot do it, (or I probably would).

Like I stated though, if someone wants to sit for hours on end fishing, let them. The speed doesnt necessarily need to be increased, but it definitely would be nice. I am not completely sure how valid this is, but I noticed after the update, that higher end fish like dory, nemo, angel fish now are alot scarcer, and in my honest opinion, that should be a decent enough handicap. Though, on the other hand, salmon and mutants are usually used to level (I use them anyways :|), and there is a decent chance to get said fish, but they dont actually sell for a whole lot.

Altogether though, I definitely do not want to see the economy happen here like it did on my old server, where hundreds of millions of zeny were needed for some higher end gears and etc.
Some of it was understandable, but then again-things like spring rabbit cards were 10-12 m there , (noone uses meat and feed here sadly because of fish , I know this) and 500k or so here.

[Sukeishima]

Miners and fishers don't have the inability to talk, its only the crazy ones that don't talk. If you've ever been mining or fishing with me, you'd see that I always drag at least one friend to go with me, and I like the chatter the whole way. When conversation gets boring (or if its late and im tired), I'll zone out and watch a movie or sometimes I've even used my free hand to text while mining.

Since you brought up AFKmists, I'll also say that sometimes I sit in pront with my hom out, or even in the Hidden Maze (mostly jur[3] farming for my sin) while I sit doing my homework and feeding my hom and letting it kill. I'm still there at the screen watching my hom (the stupid hunter fly has tried to ambush me several times >.<; and feeding it myself. Usually i end up chatting on main instead of doing homework, but the point is that I'm still there, feeding the hom myself, I'm just multitasking, and multitasking is no where said to be against the rules =P

There are disadvantages to miners/fishers who multitask. You run the risk of zoning out and letting your gold/OCAs fall onto the floor, for someone else to take or for it to disappear if you don't zone back in fast enough, or you might not notice when a random monster is killing you. Or if you really zone out, and don't come back when you're bot tested, that could be bad. So there is a certain amount of minimum effort you have to put in, or you might be facing bad consequences. Plus the risk of permanent damage to your wrist.

But if people want to be crazy and mine really fast, I think its their right to do so. I personally find it boring (even while multitasking) and cant stand to mine and fish much and usually only go when I have a specific goal of things to get, and I'd rather spend my time partying or doing something actually fun when I'm playing a game. I think there's enough reasons out there not to spend all your time mining, that having it take longer through npc speed isn't necessary. (The idea stated early in the thread to keep the npc slower so that macros aren't as useful, but isn't that noticeable to actual humans would be nice, if it could work.)

[Cheesecake]

I think that, as said in earlier posts, the current condition of my wrist, and the fact that fishing and mining has done some perminant damage to it is worth the little bit I got from it. We were damaging our bodies because the people who already had everything to hunt, were hunting, and unfortunately not everyone is so heavilly geared that they can go out and pounce everyone like the trans classes can and other people who have been around since the dawn of time.

So yeah the new people need that boost because everyone is so busy having everything they want already that not many people will run out and help you hunt for things. Not to mention that buying what you need off to start isnt exactly a cake walk. I'm a Super Novice, and you expect me to run around and hunt for my gear, and not lose ALL my experience in the process? I need a better character to be able to hunt for me, now imagine that Im new, and I only have one character and I need some cash and I find out about mining but the people who mined before already have this huge stockpile of shit from when it was quicker, and so much money.. that by the time I have what they have I will have chronic carpal tunnel and get a little pissed off..

Now comes another thing, Gold. The current people got their cold from mining, and they have a large abundance of it. With them having so much at once its nearly impossible to overtake them, AND now its even more difficult because decreasing the time between windows is exponentially detrimental to gold count.. so now we have another problem and thats the nobility people will stay that way until they quit and someone overtakes them by, once again, getting carpal tunnel.. worse than before.

*huff huff huff*

Okay. So we have 2 things. 1 you're hurting our wrists more. 2 you are catering to the people who already have a large abundance of gold. Now we getdown to Fishing. You made OCA harder to get and took out the only two cards really that made OCA exciting? So now the people with Angeling and Ghostring not only have something awesome and now nearly unobtainable but OCA value also dramatically dropped. So not only is that bad but its also unfair.

So now I wont get Angeling/GR. I will have wrists that hurt more, for longer, because people are scared I will have money and be able to buy things from the people who have been there for like a few years and have millions in their bank, and not only that but unless someone in the nobility race quits I will never be a contender.

So where are the perks for perminantly ruining my wrist?

PS: Macro timing can be adjusted. You're just making the macroers annoyed, not nullifying them.

[Aaronock]

I got most of my nobility golds through buying the royal gold bullions for 500k each in Alde...TAKE THAT MINING!

[Irxallis]

Hmm... I just hope my last post was not too 'aggressive' in general, as it was not my intention. Fishing/mining is a part of the server and I would never say "OMG STOP FISHING/MINING NAO" (even if I had the power to do it ;-) ). It is a part of the game.

I just wanted to present a bit different view on this matter, because I haven't seen this particular approach in this thread yet.

I agree mining and fishing do not have to make a player 'useless', of course, and what I presented is definitely not a standard. It depends on a person and on the person's personality.
And yes, I agree with all people who said 'if someone finds that kind of clicking fun, let them, they should have the right to'. Of course they do, there is no objection. I am not trying to attack anyone.

For me personally mining/fishing is extremely boring, especially as I am not a very talkative person out of parties (though if you party me, go on, try to silence me XD).

In fact, I'd stay silent in this thread if not for the fact that I was informed 'after I get 99 I will get the best zeny during mining/fishing'. This implies it is the single best zeny making device. And that is exactly what makes me shudder. The influence on economy and on rares' accessibility.

After you get 99, you need only zeny. Usually one got zeny hunting rares and vending them (especially those which give small exp and you die a lot), increasing supply and in time decreasing demand.

Case study: when we hit 90 (and when we decided that exp < zeny), we started hunting Ancient Mimics with my partner and in time we got like 10+ Friccos. All were vended, thus we got a nice amount of zeny. A side effect was that was a zeny redistribution - we got zeny from some players and transferred that zeny to us. Friccos prices went down, of course, which means if a new player came, he/she could buy them cheaper. Of course, there is a breakpoint after which I would not vend Friccos and, for example, focus on other locations. But maybe someone else decided 'Friccos for Y zeny is still great money'. Or demand would grow and I would see many 'B>Friccos' on @main, like now is the case with Falcon Mufflers - demand went up, prices go up.

Speculation:

I know of at least 2 people who would like to buy Falcon Muffler. I haven't seen one on a market for 3 weeks now, which suggests hardly anybody is hunting there. It is not as exp-efficient as nameless island / anubis, and not as zeny-efficient as mining or fishing. People ask on main for falcon mufflers from time to time, therefore there is a stable demand... but no falcons appear.

I suspect that is because even if someone got a falcon muffler, the price would have to match or exceed projected gain from simpler, more 'mundane' actions (mining/fishing). Why should you make a Kiel Dungeon run (not the simplest one, definitely) if you can easily get zeny not having to rely on sometimes incompetent partymates and not having to share? (this of course is overemphasised).

Additionally, if you need zeny to buy something, you can just go to mines/fish for some time. The zeny influx makes prices go up (look at hatter card prices in the last 3 months; it went from 350k ea to 450k ea). For me it doesn't really matter that much - I will have fun anyway, zeny is simple to get if you have reliable partners and are 99, but I saw some new players (especially those who did not like automated actions like mining/fishing) struggle with this (umm... metal fragment needed? When I came to this server I kind of assumed people are like on any other, how should I know they would help with fishing/mining quests?). Especially the competetive ones (I am a very casual player).


Yes, it is not fair there was a change. It is not fair there will be no GR in OCA, drops were changed etc. Of course it is not fair. But if I am right, the reward system is broken, which is even worse (it rewards actions which would be best done by a bot!). And as I do not know what problem was mining/fishing introduced to address, I cannot really say more. It might have been a way to give simple way of obtaining zeny without obtaining exp (because just now it works just like that). If so, it overlaps with hunting rares in places which are not very exp-efficient (which WOULD reduce the different types of cards present on the market, thankfully, OCAs are obtainable from mining/fishing, which is GOOD because it widens the array of accessible cards). In my opinion, that was not a problem worthy being addressed. Of course, there is nobility and any changes to gold influences nobility as well...


Sorry for big walls of text, but this is an extremely complex case.


My opinion:

Whatever will be done with mining/fishing, be it a revert of changes or additional nerf (or nothing at all), I will be satisfied - it is just a game. I just want to show there might be more than meets the eye...

...and in my personal opinion the current system is broken somewhat.

I guess it is the last post of mine in this thread, as I have nothing to add XD


TL;DR:

Mining and fishing is not bad. The thing which is bad is the fact it is the best zeny making device. If it was a mediocre one, it would be OK. But still too boring for me to consider. Irx likes to write a lot.

[Cheesecake]

And so time and space fall into alignment and blot out the indescrete repulsive gamma fragented litnus molecular beam and allow the nimbus bimolecular codon particles to salivate through permiable convexed barriers resulting in a proven thesis.

In other words, you don't care. My wrists hurt and I want rewards for it. >/

[Force-Attuned Krogoth]

If you think newbies have no way to get anything without fishing and mining, or begging people to work for them, you're quite mistaken. Ask Ellie, who made a fortune in poring cards before she turned 2nd job. Ask me, who made my own fortune by MVP'ing with a level 80 hunter in order to support having 8 characters. There plenty of ways for newbies to make a buck, and I think it's wonderful. There's similarly no lack of methods to make money while levelling: hill winds, bathories, sleepers, and raydrics to name but a few. I just don't see the imbalance in allowing someone to turn a profit by neglecting their exp.

[GM-Ayu]

"Physical health issue related arguments" => pointless for an online game.


That's like saying how you need to wear glasses due to prolonged exposure to staring at the computer screen too long because you want to play heRO and it'll end up to be heRO's fault. You don't have to destroy your wrist by taking breaks, do less picks per run so each run lasts shorter. As a GM, I honestly felt like being blackmailed to say "hey my wrist is hurting and I demand compensation through easier zeny." Sometimes people refuse to fish or mine completely because they are actually aware of their body conditions...? You made the conscious decision to push yourself to that. If "health reasons" worked in this case, you start ridiculous arguments like "Hey I stayed up 56 hours straight trying to hunt a mvp card and I never got one, then I collapse and had to go to the hospital due to being overworked. Check the logs I stayed up for 56 hours! So unfair I almost died trying to get a mvp card and I totally didn't. Wtf?"

Be cautious of what your body is capable to do and don't die for a silly game. Don't be like one of those geeks who died of thirst playing World of Warcraft.

[Gojira]

Be cautious of what your body is capable to do and don't die for a silly game. Don't be like one of those geeks who died of thirst playing World of Warcraft.

You mean the guy who couldn't find the quit button so he played to death?

[Session]

I have heard of like half a dozen cases about WoW deaths :x
Pretty horribly lame if you ask me :o

Anyways, I agree with the above statements(especially Miss Ayu's rebuttal to the wrist dealys). I'm not going to repeat what they said, but I'd personally like the speed up, so I can get back to training faster.
I do know on other servers there are anti macro and bot check programs built into the actual game,I'm not nearly sure how they do so, but maybe that should be looked into?


Note: Miss ayu is scary when angry :<