Suggestion: More Warp NPC quests

[KeiHikari]

One of my favorite things about this server is the Warp NPC system. It really made HeRO stand out when I was first deciding which server to play on. ^^

When I talked to the save point girl in Prontera for the first time, I was so impressed that there was actually a quest implemented to unlock warps! I was a little bit sad when I realized that the remaining warp save points beyond the initial 6 were all just zeny bought.

I would like to suggest adding some more unlock quests for some of the other warp points sometime in a future update (but could possibly giving the player option to skip the quests and just pay the usual zeny).^^

Example ideas for unlock quests:
-You could be asked to collect x items dropped from monsters in the dungeon you're unlocking
-You could be asked to deliver more letters between sisters
-You could be asked to show her x equipment,
??**I like this idea for poring island. The save girl could ask you to show
?? her 4-5 kinds of poring hats. Wear a poring hat and talk to her, thats 1
?? Then change to a drop hat and talk to her for 2, then repeat until shes
?? seen enough and unlocks your warp point for you. Perhaps she can give
?? something to you for your troubles also (poring doll?) :3
-You could be asked to click on checkpoints
??**Like hit "switches" in a tech dungeon, or find a dropped
?? item on the floor hidden in the dungeon. The checkpoints could be
?? found and clicked on similar to how a fishing spot is

Not sure how difficult it would be to add stuff like this, but still, I just wanted to throw the idea out there. ^^

[Session]

It may seem fun, but I really disagree with all of it.

Mainly, because its enough to need to unlock warps for every characters as is... If we're required to go do quests, gather items, and a lot of other things just so we can save there, its going to be very aggravating.

To myself, at least. I tend to play around with new characters, when things are being dull and quiet.


Though...if it was optional to do the quest, or just pay the standard zeny fee, I'd be alright with it.

I have no problem just buying my save points, but not everyone (Including you) will agree with that. So, to be fair...let there be an option to do the quest, for those that do not have the money for it, or just want to enjoy doing it may do the quest, and the ones that would rather not, can pay the fee.

[Namine]

Both basic letter delivery quest and the much rarely done quest, the Hollow Poring related quest in Juno, will unlock warps for free (or give small prize for those who have unlocked the warp already.) There should be another quest "somewhere in test server" of similar functions already.

[Manifus]

Namine Wrote:Both basic letter delivery quest and the much rarely done quest, the Hollow Poring related quest in Juno, will unlock warps for free (or give small prize for those who have unlocked the warp already.) There should be another quest "somewhere in test server" of similar functions already.

Would those quests happen to be on the wiki by chance?

[Namine]

Details and steps not filled in yet by players (and it will be nice if more players contribute to wiki instead of the same 2-3 players filling all of it), but of course the complete list of custom quests in heRO included it:

This one

[Manifus]

Namine Wrote:Details and steps not filled in yet by players (and it will be nice if more players contribute to wiki instead of the same 2-3 players filling all of it), but of course the complete list of custom quests in heRO included it:

This one

It's much easier to build a database when you have the actual database to build from, such as how RMS does it, however, we are not privy to such materials.

[Namine]

Manifus Wrote:

Namine Wrote:Details and steps not filled in yet by players (and it will be nice if more players contribute to wiki instead of the same 2-3 players filling all of it), but of course the complete list of custom quests in heRO included it:

This one

It's much easier to build a database when you have the actual database to build from, such as how RMS does it, however, we are not privy to such materials.

RMS database section is just a direct hook-up with eA database. If there's errors in eA, RMS reports it without change.

On the other hand, all other RO quest-based wiki, including RMS's own quest guide, has always been built by players who wrote down the procedure as they went on the quest themselves. Also, guides written by players often put the quest in perspective of doing the task as well (such as tips on how to do it, what's the most efficient way, etc) while GM perspective is how they 'expect' players to do it (which is often, harder than it has to be.)

Also, wiki is built by players. Some things such as monster database, hardly anyone but Namin? can even read it, so some sections need certain people to fill out. However, quest details and procedure is not something that only GMs can do (as proven by other players who contributed on many other quests.)

[Manifus]

Namine Wrote:

Manifus Wrote:

Namine Wrote:Details and steps not filled in yet by players (and it will be nice if more players contribute to wiki instead of the same 2-3 players filling all of it), but of course the complete list of custom quests in heRO included it:

This one

It's much easier to build a database when you have the actual database to build from, such as how RMS does it, however, we are not privy to such materials.

RMS database section is just a direct hook-up with eA database. If there's errors in eA, RMS reports it without change.

On the other hand, all other RO quest-based wiki, including RMS's own quest guide, has always been built by players who wrote down the procedure as they went on the quest themselves. Also, guides written by players often put the quest in perspective of doing the task as well (such as tips on how to do it, what's the most efficient way, etc) while GM perspective is how they 'expect' players to do it (which is often, harder than it has to be.)

Also, wiki is built by players. Some things such as monster database, hardly anyone but Namin? can even read it, so some sections need certain people to fill out. However, quest details and procedure is not something that only GMs can do (as proven by other players who contributed on many other quests.)

I should rephrase.

Having the scripts (which people who write how to guides on quest, for RMS for example, whom do have access to the eA scripts which anyone can easily get via the eA boards.) are:

Faster, More Efficient, and More Accurate.

This is due to the fact, well, you can actually see how a quest is meant to function, and how it does, in fact, function. This of course plays even more of a role to the more 'ambiguous quests' in heRO.

Also other details that normal players are not capable of writing such as items that are either not released/accessible/or just simply do not have.

Keep in mind that, while the wiki is mostly player driven, our population is still...minuscule and unmotivated... to say the least. Just passing work onto the players is unlikely to get great results quickly, although I do thank the players that have given their time and effort, contributing to the pool of knowledge that is the wiki.

On a side note, has the Wiki actually been opened up for all players to edit? Last I checked it was only open for a specific few to actual edit, though I have not checked that specific detail in a while.

[Namine]

Manifus Wrote:I should rephrase.

Having the scripts (which people who write how to guides on quest, for RMS for example, whom do have access to the eA scripts which anyone can easily get via the eA boards.) are:

Faster, More Efficient, and More Accurate.

This is due to the fact, well, you can actually see how a quest is meant to function, and how it does, in fact, function. This of course plays even more of a role to the more 'ambiguous quests' in heRO.

Also other details that normal players are not capable of writing such as items that are either not released/accessible/or just simply do not have.

Keep in mind that, while the wiki is mostly player driven, our population is still...minuscule and unmotivated... to say the least. Just passing work onto the players is unlikely to get great results quickly, although I do thank the players that have given their time and effort, contributing to the pool of knowledge that is the wiki.

On a side note, has the Wiki actually been opened up for all players to edit? Last I checked it was only open for a specific few to actual edit, though I have not checked that specific detail in a while.

a) signing up to "earn" the "priviledge" seriously is not that difficult... wiki allows anyone but anonymous to edit almost all pages, so that's hardly a problem

b) so people are lazy and won't do it, let's just do it for them? talk about positive reinforcement for negative behaviours... GMs gave everyone the spoon (pre-made format all ready to be filled, much better than 1 year ago when there's not even formats). Let's not be so lazy to the explicit level to shout for "if you went far enough to give us a spoon, go one step further and just feed us already." Rules show the GMs' stance pretty clear: they are not going to reveal quest details, so players can do it and solve whatever the quest demands themselves. It's time to break the lazyness cycle. If players want something, get up and go for it then.

Refer to the ToH wing/difficulty 100% circular debate for parallel situation.

c) The only thing that players don't know is specific % activation, which to be truthful, even GMs don't know it. GMs know as much as what the item description update last svn-overhaul has added. Don't ask why this is the way it is for how GM team functions, and just accept that this is the way it is.

d) Short version: Script is much harder to follow than players imagine for quest details. It's easier to just do the quest, and record steps by going through the end product.

TL;DR version: since script organize each part by NPC and not the order of occurence/"steps" to a quest. Script makes it even harder to read when a quest involves going back and forth between multiple NPCs, especially if non-dialogue NPCs are involved. Then it'll make all the steps scattered throughout the file. Testing and going through the end-product for quest is much easier to handle. If script is that easy to read, kiel quest don't have to produce a separate section in the beginning (that's around one to 2 pages long) just to keep track of which NPC/variable is "involved" in which 'section' of the quest. Don't even get sign quest started in terms of how bad it is to eyeball the quest's procedure by looking at the variables and NPCs.

[Manifus]

Namine Wrote:a) signing up to "earn" the "priviledge" seriously is not that difficult... wiki allows anyone but anonymous to edit almost all pages, so that's hardly a problem

b) so people are lazy and won't do it, let's just do it for them? talk about positive reinforcement for negative behaviours... GMs gave everyone the spoon (pre-made format all ready to be filled, much better than 1 year ago when there's not even formats). Let's not be so lazy to the explicit level to shout for "if you went far enough to give us a spoon, go one step further and just feed us already." Rules show the GMs' stance pretty clear: they are not going to reveal quest details, so players can do it and solve whatever the quest demands themselves. It's time to break the lazyness cycle. If players want something, get up and go for it then.

Refer to the ToH wing/difficulty 100% circular debate for parallel situation.

c) The only thing that players don't know is specific % activation, which to be truthful, even GMs don't know it. GMs know as much as what the item description update last svn-overhaul has added. Don't ask why this is the way it is for how GM team functions, and just accept that this is the way it is.

d) Short version: Script is much harder to follow than players imagine for quest details. It's easier to just do the quest, and record steps by going through the end product.

TL;DR version: since script organize each part by NPC and not the order of occurence/"steps" to a quest. Script makes it even harder to read when a quest involves going back and forth between multiple NPCs, especially if non-dialogue NPCs are involved. Then it'll make all the steps scattered throughout the file. Testing and going through the end-product for quest is much easier to handle. If script is that easy to read, kiel quest don't have to produce a separate section in the beginning (that's around one to 2 pages long) just to keep track of which NPC/variable is "involved" in which 'section' of the quest. Don't even get sign quest started in terms of how bad it is to eyeball the quest's procedure by looking at the variables and NPCs.

Like I said, has been awhile since I last checked, which was probably when it was either first starting up or had some issues that had it closed down temporarily for said specific group to mod.

It isn't necessarily a laziness issue. Just how less of the people who play this game have a forum account, and even less regularly read, and even less post. Nor do people feel that it is their responsibility or obligation (of those people who either know of or use the wiki.)

I know you said not to ask, but that goes against my nature... Por que!? D:

For some, that may be the case, I can only speak for myself when I say specifically - I find it easier to go through a script to see how scripts function, then again that is something I've devoted a god chunk of my life into - not to mention more invasive quests such as anything that involves a group and basic knowledge of NPC locations (spefically anything to do with Thanatos Tower, bleh.)

Not to mention every quest that heRO (That I am aware of) has created would be listed as easier (scripting-wise) than both those quests you just listed. Then again having easy access to knowledge would probably be too convenient. Forget I even brought up the matter. ;o

Back to what originally motivated this discussion. I didn't even know that yuno quest you spoke of existed. D: