Guild Dungeon access

[Logan]

Last night I just tried to access Al de Baran's GD and didn't make it.

I realize the GD is intended to be a bonus/prize to the guild that holds the castle, but I think I should have the option not to be part of a WoE active guild and still go to that map.

My suggestion is therefore taken from an old server I've seen: A fee is charged every time you access the GD if you do not hold the castle (like the aircraft in Izlude). The cash goes to the guild leader, who profits from it and can invest @ the castle economy.

As for the price, it could be either standardized or defined by the guild leader (lower prices meaning more revenues and higher ones meaning saving the map for his guildies only).


I do enjoy very much playing in GDs, but I'm off WoE. Hope something like this is doable.

[azurerogue]

Pay to get into a guild for a few days - donate WoE items to get into a guild for a few days - etc.

It's nearly the same as your idea, but requires NO additional scripting / changes on the GM's part.

[Kretzer]

No :/

You can arrange a deal with the castle-holding guilds anytime you like. But giving public access to these dungeons means taking away most of the incentives people get for WoEing.

People invest millions and millions in items and gear, not to mention the man hours spent brewing and shit. For you it might just be a dungeon they are "Monopolizing", but its the fruit of their hard work, screw everyone else.

[Merellis]

I have to disagree on the idea here, particularly on the GM involvement.

As mentioned above it isn't too hard to talk with Guild Leaders and arrange a payment in items or zeny for access, all it takes is diplomancy and some effort farming consumables or things needed for WoE (ie, Witch Starsands, Blue Herbs, Crystal Fragments and White Herbs)

My major issue is you asking for the GM's to give public entrance to the Guild Dungeons, that's essentially saying 'I don't wish to WoE, but wish to reap the instant benefit of hard work for a little zeny, AND I wish to make it mandatory.'

The first part is dealt with by talking to the Guild Leaders and is easy to do.

The last part means that Guilds who work hard now really have not as much short term reward and now must focus on the long-term hope for a God Item without getting a small instant reward to show that the hard-work put in is worth it.

I swear that last sentence sounded fine in my head.

[Logan]

Wow... And I thought people WoE'ed for:

1 - Fun
2 - Fame
3 - Treasure Chests
4 - Godly Items
5 - GD

Seriously, these dungeons are not awesome exp when compared to nameless/biolabs, their loot is no better than anywhere else etc.

Also, it would not be mandatory for the leaders to give people access. Back on the other server, if they didn't want people to enter they charged like 10 mils per person per entrance.

I do understand that it would require additional coding. However, this honestly sounds like the only reasonable argument against it.

"Oh, you could talk to guild leaders and arrange something." = TRUE. Still, it would be simpler for anyone who wants access if there was a pay'n'enter system.

Not to mention I might be a member of an enemy guild and then people wouldn't want to have me with them.


Really honestly: What %age of players do WoE because of GD nowadays?

[Merellis]

I do WoE for fun, I was just making the case that the GD is pretty much the only short-term reward of capturing and keeping a castle.

And as for being a part of an enemy guild, there are three castles, so three opportunity to gain said castle and therefore access to the GD.

And how would the Pay System be simpler then talking to a Guild Leader? By talking to the Guild Leader they would give you the price THEY want, whether it be zeny or items. And most Guilds are going to want items such as WSS, Blue Herbs, White Herbs, Crystal Fragments and such.

Though, whether the Guild wants to give access or not depends on them.

So really you have 2 choices, appease a GL for access, or start WoEing.

[Fruityla]

And guess what? A similar suggestion was rejected before for the same reasons everyone is giving in this thread.

[Merellis]

You mean THIS one?

Same arguments thrown across with a GM response. Read it and see what happened.

[Logan]

Merellis Wrote:I do WoE for fun, I was just making the case that the GD is pretty much the only short-term reward of capturing and keeping a castle.

This wouldn't change. Getting the castle you get the GD for free.

Merellis Wrote:And as for being a part of an enemy guild, there are three castles, so three opportunity to gain said castle and therefore access to the GD.

This is only true if one joins a WoE-active guild. Non-guilders and non-WoE actives are left aside.

Merellis Wrote:And how would the Pay System be simpler then talking to a Guild Leader? By talking to the Guild Leader they would give you the price THEY want, whether it be zeny or items. And most Guilds are going to want items such as WSS, Blue Herbs, White Herbs, Crystal Fragments and such.

Is it easier to buy a book on the internet or asking the writer to sell it to you? Pretty much the same idea. I really don't know any of the guilds/leaders (haven't tried either).

And setting the price of the NPC for entrance, leaders would get zeny and buy stuff with it (atl least white herbs and WSS are easy to buy @main, I don't WoE and know that).

Merellis Wrote:Though, whether the Guild wants to give access or not depends on them.

Set an abusive price (like I said, many kk zeny) and you have the reward of the hard WoE effort only for your guild.

Merellis Wrote:So really you have 2 choices, appease a GL for access, or start WoEing.

And this is the point. If I don't want to WoE, there could be an automatic system for me to pay and enter GD, not needing to know any guild leader and discuss price etc. He would set a single price to allow any player to enter.



@Fruityla
So let me see if I understood right. The only reasonable arguments against it are:

1 - It would take too much coding effort;
2 - People don't want to create a system that makes easy and automatic the process of dealing with guild leaders to enter their GD.

It those arguments are true, there's no more need for me to ask for this.




EDIT:

Never mind. Gave up on it. It is reasonable, but unwanted.

[Merellis]

Logan Wrote:This wouldn't change. Getting the castle you get the GD for free.

It would change WoE actually. If EVERYONE could get into the Guild Dungeons by paying and never having to build a character for WoE, why fight for a castle for Treasure Chests when you can just pay to get in and go kill the MVP's and other creatures there for less then half the work?

Logan Wrote:This is only true if one joins a WoE-active guild. Non-guilders and non-WoE actives are left aside.

And? A Guild Dungeon is a reward of WoE, those who want in would have to get in on the action somehow, either by farming or WoEing.

Logan Wrote:Is it easier to buy a book on the internet or asking the writer to sell it to you? Pretty much the same idea. I really don't know any of the guilds/leaders (haven't tried either).

And setting the price of the NPC for entrance, leaders would get zeny and buy stuff with it (atl least white herbs and WSS are easy to buy @main, I don't WoE and know that).

Seeing as how the Guild is merely the Online Store and not the one who CREATED the Dungeon, it makes sense that way.

Logan Wrote:Set an abusive price (like I said, many kk zeny) and you have the reward of the hard WoE effort only for your guild.

Then you would have people complaining that GD's are supposed to allow everyone in but the Guilds are making so no one but that Guild can.

Logan Wrote:And this is the point. If I don't want to WoE, there could be an automatic system for me to pay and enter GD, not needing to know any guild leader and discuss price etc. He would set a single price to allow any player to enter.

That's just the thing. I would think any Guild Leader would WANT to have a say in negotiations with each player and be able to say 'yes' or 'no' at their discretion. Yes this is selfish reasoning, but they are the ones running the Guild that is fighting for that castle so it would be fair they have a complete say over who or not is in the Guild or even allowed in the Dungeon.

Logan Wrote:Never mind. Gave up on it. It is reasonable, but unwanted.

Now here is what is bugging me, you say this request is reasonable but are not willing to fight for it or to try and continue a debate on the subject which leads me to think you honestly didn't care about the answer and just wanted to see if you could get the easy way out of WoEing or appealing to a third party for your access to a Guild Dungeon.